Terrible Time to Build a PC

targetrasp · January 30, 2018, 07:24:17 AM

Has anyone tried to build a PC lately... This bitcoin craze has made graphic cards almost unaffordable. Just before Christmas I was looking at Newegg and 1070s were around $400.00 while an HP Omen with a 1070 and a 7th gen i7 was $599.00 at Best Buy. Now that very same computer is $1199 at Best Buy while the cheapest 1070 gtx graphics card is $820 on newegg. I walked out of bestbuy with that computer, a windows mixed reality headset, and a harmony remote spending less that what a lesser version of that graphics card costs right now.

This bitcoin bubble has to pop before I can afford to build another gaming computer, or buy one for that matter.

BLUEVOODU · January 30, 2018, 04:50:27 PM

Lol... that sucks. I still have a 3 year old build that runs everything max 1080p... so I haven't upgraded. But I've had the bug to upgrade.

I looked into Newegg.com... they offer it at $799-820

I didn't realize the bit coin craze affected pc hardware. It makes sense though. And it definitely was popping / dropping.

SpartanEvolved · February 01, 2018, 12:54:07 AM

Yeah, upper end GPUs are basically impossible to find at MSRP. RAM prices are pretty bad too. Definitely sucks for gamers.

BLUEVOODU · February 01, 2018, 09:57:01 PM

Quote from: SpartanEvolved on February 01, 2018, 12:54:07 AM
Yeah, upper end GPUs are basically impossible to find at MSRP. RAM prices are pretty bad too. Definitely sucks for gamers.

Yeah it does... because I'm getting the PC build bug. Reality will hit soon and I'll remember I'm making myself wait 2 more years before a new build. Sigh...

Kinikko · February 09, 2018, 03:52:53 AM

I got kinda a hand-me-down from my brother because I sold my last desktop when I bought a gaming laptop. I upgraded the video card he had in it to a Radeon RX 480. It runs things pretty decently for what it is (the rest is pretty budget-y).

Polygon · February 19, 2018, 12:08:56 PM

Only idiots are build GPUs to mine BTC with. That vast majority are mining alt-coins like ETH. However, there might be good news is sight... someone is developing an ASIC for ETH and it could be good with other coins as well. Current ASICs are worthless for mining ETH, but that's what most are using for BTC. If that happens, mining ETH, and possibly other cryptos, with GPUs days could be numbered. AS for memory, they just need to increase production as you have so many devices that need it and they just can't keep up with demand right now.

targetrasp · February 20, 2018, 08:45:12 PM

Something needs to give, there's only computer in the house that's worth gaming on and it has been taken over every since I purchased a VR headset.

trkorecky · February 20, 2018, 08:56:51 PM

FWIW some manufacturers sell cards directly through their websites. You can auto-notify from EVGA, for example, to get a 1070 for $470.

targetrasp · February 20, 2018, 10:29:21 PM

That's awesome - bad thing is there's not a 10x series that's in stock - not even a 1030...

you have to go all the way back to a 950 to purchase something in stock. 10x series also has a 1 per household limit which I really appreciate to keep the scalpers somewhat at bay but it stinks if you want to run multiples!

CreepinDeth · February 21, 2018, 12:47:59 AM

I'm hanging on to my GTX 970 as much as I could. I even downgraded my monitor in order to keep up with newer games.

However, I think this is a great time for AMD and nVidia to innovate. Looks like AMD is cranking out some interesting APUs that are around $100 and can do gaming decently. No way would one replace my GTX 970 but the future looks bright in my opinion.

Polygon · February 21, 2018, 04:54:48 PM

My backup machine has a 970 and for 1080p is great, unless you want to run high refresh. Too bad even those are obscenely expensive right now. For now, GPU and memory manufactures NEED to increase production capacity. That's currently the only fix for this in the short term and I feel that it's only a matter of time before it starts to effect the sales of other components.

CreepinDeth · February 21, 2018, 10:03:15 PM

Quote from: BlastMode7 on February 21, 2018, 04:54:48 PM
For now, GPU and memory manufactures NEED to increase production capacity. That's currently the only fix for this in the short term and I feel that it's only a matter of time before it starts to effect the sales of other components.

Unfortunately, that's not going to help even in the short term. Mining is dependent on GPUs and the more you have, the faster you can mine coins. So just ramping up will not stop miners from buying the entire supply. They will just build more mining rigs.

Plus, it's not that simple to ramp up manufacturing. The components needed to make a GPU are not abundant.

retro junkie · February 22, 2018, 07:05:13 AM

I stopped building my own rigs a few years ago. My needs are not that demanding as I do not game on a PC. My last purchase was a used Think Center. I loaded up my Linux OS and have enjoyed it with no regrets. And the $40 for the Think Center did not break the bank.

targetrasp · February 22, 2018, 05:52:05 PM

PC gaming is a drug. There's something to hook any and everyone. All the troubles with controllers, mics, and multiplayer being buggy, or difficult to get working is long gone. I like it for everything but the AAA stuff. If you get that taste you'll chase the dragon for the rest of your life.

BLUEVOODU · February 22, 2018, 11:22:24 PM

Yes it is... I get the bug to build. I swear it off... do what I can to ward it off... but then I start to sweat and think about it. It's like the SpongeBob episode where SpongeBob is trying not to need water lol when he's drying up and out of water in Sandy's Tree dome...
"I don't need it. I don't need it. I definitely don't need it. I NNNEEEEDDDDD IITTTTTTT."

yes... I just used a SpongeBob reference. Successfully.

targetrasp · February 24, 2018, 04:11:05 PM

We've talked about it so much I cleaned out my parts collection and built something. I found a Radeon 6990, a stock amd cooler, an old gigabyte board, a hex core processor, and tons of storage. I was only able to find 2 gigs of ram though, so i've not been able to do a whole lot with it yet. I think i've got some old workstations at work that i can rob...

It scratched an itch for a minute, but i still wanna build something better...

CreepinDeth · February 24, 2018, 06:12:43 PM

I really want to build a new machine with the Intel i5-8400 chip. However, my system that turned 7 years old last month is still doing decent.

I might go laptop though for general PC use in the meantime though. For the price of a graphics card, I can get a great laptop.

targetrasp · February 24, 2018, 10:51:17 PM

the little computers I have in everyone's bedrooms are older HPs with the i5-2500 chip and I swear if I could fit a decent graphics card and power supply in the case these would still be relevant for more than just email, internet, youtube...

BLUEVOODU · February 28, 2018, 01:49:57 PM

That's cool - small cases are nice...I've been tempted to build a LAN box at times. I've never done it... ended up buying a gaming laptop around the time I was thinking about it. They are very tempting to build though and are slick with the correct Power Supply and Graphics card.

Quote from: CreepinDeth on February 24, 2018, 06:12:43 PM
I really want to build a new machine with the Intel i5-8400 chip. However, my system that turned 7 years old last month is still doing decent.

you're beating me right now. Mine is 3-4 and still maxing everything at 1080P. I haven't gone higher resolution with the monitor yet.

trkorecky · March 04, 2018, 11:22:32 PM

Quote from: BLUEVOODU on February 28, 2018, 01:49:57 PM
you're beating me right now. Mine is 3-4 and still maxing everything at 1080P. I haven't gone higher resolution with the monitor yet.

You'll probably be good for a bit as well. Some studios have gone wide with their engines, I know Ubisoft and EA do what they can to spread the load across multiple cores, but with Intel's past few years of minimal IPC improvements you might be good for a while depending on how many hardware threads you have. Older i7's are still holding their own since they're already well above and beyond XB1 and PS4 CPUs (base models).

Unfortunately the graphics card shortage affects more than just gamers. My studio is struggling to get cards for engineers and QA, which negatively affects our PC teams for both minimum and recommended specs across both vendors.

I'm also upset that the rumors swap daily between "NVIDIA will" and "NVIDIA won't" for releasing new cards this year. I need something to replace my SLI 980 Tis, and preferably something with better support for DX12 / Vulkan.

ThravRande · March 16, 2018, 02:16:53 PM

This whole thing was really put into perspective for me when I looked up the price of the card I bought for my PC 2 years ago for $280 (and came with rose of the tomb raider). It's $899 today for the same thing. Insane

targetrasp · March 16, 2018, 06:25:23 PM

I'll be a lot of developers will scale back pushing graphical limits for a while.

Splurging on a graphics card now is nearing a house payment

Kinikko · March 17, 2018, 01:48:01 AM

Ah, wonderful bitcoins. How you drive prices up so well.

targetrasp · March 17, 2018, 10:46:22 AM

my hopes is when they do crash (and surely they will) that the hardware manufacturers don't decide to keep their prices up.

I can bet you any revenue based meeting the discussion boils down to how are we going to hold our prices when the bubble bursts and how are we going to keep our competitors from slashing theirs?

Sure, we'll see a drop, the distribution outlets won't be gouging so hard but I'd be surprised if we see hardware back to early 2017 prices.

CreepinDeth · March 24, 2018, 10:43:43 PM

Quote from: targetrasp on March 17, 2018, 10:46:22 AM
my hopes is when they do crash (and surely they will) that the hardware manufacturers don't decide to keep their prices up.

It's not the manufacturers that are setting the prices, it's the retailers. Manufacturers will mainly do that when there's a shortage of materials and they can only make a limited amount. In this case, it's demand that's driving the prices up.

targetrasp · May 01, 2018, 07:29:16 AM

Looks like things are starting to settle down again. The 1080 ti's are starting right around $1000 now, and the 1060's and 1070's seem almost what they once were. Ram is also in a decent spot again. 2x 8gb sticks floating in the $160 range. Best Buy's gaming PCs are starting to drop in price too. It looks like $800 ish will get you the bottom - mid range of what I'd consider a gaming pc.

If these prices keep sliding south I may be able to finally pull the trigger on that second gaming rig.

BLUEVOODU · May 08, 2018, 11:18:03 PM

@targetrasp yeah... I definitely want to start building something else. My PC still does everything max 1080P. I haven't sprung for 4K yet or high resolution monitors. I will probably do that at the same time (with better graphics card to run the higher res monitor at highest settings).

@BlastMode7 What do you think will happen with future prices?

CreepinDeth · May 09, 2018, 10:10:28 PM

Prices are finally coming back down to MSRP. But, new cards are on the horizon.

I took the plunge and bought a GTX 1080. Everything looks great, however, I can clearly see now where my CPU bottlenecks in some spots here and there. Nothing too crazy though. This is the first time I've encountered this. Pretty good for a 7 year old i5.

targetrasp · May 09, 2018, 10:11:40 PM

Bitcoin is 1/2 what it was in December 2017 and there's bitcoin futures out now, so no more bullish growth (I hope), which would mean no more insane hikes in technology related to mining bitcoin. I'm betting gpu's and ram won't bottom out or drop much more at all without a significant change in supply but I also don't think they'll increase much faster than normal inflation allows since now you betting against bitcoin is an option.

Polygon · May 13, 2018, 05:25:13 PM

Quote from: BLUEVOODU on May 08, 2018, 11:18:03 PM
@BlastMode7 What do you think will happen with future prices?

Well, I think this is a very complex issue. The memory prices as well as production are merely one component. There's a lawsuit pending against Hynix, Micron and Samsung about price fixing. IF they are found guilty, that could help to alleviate some of the issue. It will at least bring memory prices down so the average person can afford to put more than 8GB of RAM in their builds. I'm honestly not looking forward to buying another kit of 32GB come the end of the year. For production, they need to build another facility or "smart" device production needs to drop off. Remember, it's not just phones and tablets. We're talking a plethora of app driven tech that needs memory.

The memory supply just isn't there for graphics card manufactures to keep up with the demand from crypto miners. Right now you're seeing a drop due to a severe drop in BTC and ETH, and a lot of people that were in mining without really knowing what they're doing, are now getting out. The influx of used mining cards, as a result, has also been a big driving force in this drop in GPU prices. The other is that mining with BTC isn't very profitable for people using GPUs due to ASIC miners. They recently released one for ETH, which is the other big crypto on the block. Only time will tell if they take out GPUs in the way ASICs did for BTC. You still have the issue of the fact there are a lot of cryptos that are very viable for mining with GPUs and there's also the fact that both BTC and ETH are back on the rise. You also have the issue of retailers not selling at MSRP as they know they can sell them for that price. Our only recourse there is to vote with our wallets. Sadly, miners will buy them and not bat an eye.

Lastly, Samsung had a power outage that killed a lot of NAND flash memory not too long ago affecting the price of SSDs, but to a much lesser degree.

So... what needs to happen in the short term is that ASICs work out well to mine ETH and memory manufactures need to be found guilty of price fixing, if they are. Those two things will make the most difference this year. In the long term, we would need to not have another crypto take off that can be mined with GPUs and memory production needs to increase. The latter is going to take a while, if another facility is built.

I imagine we're going to see a another temporary drop in prices like we did about a year ago. Since memory is rather expensive now, we may not see much more of a price drop in GPU prices. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't think we're seeing the end of this.