Games, Consoles, and Updates!

[retro junkie]

I have a game that I purchased used for my 3DS. It will play for five, ten, or maybe three minutes and then crash, producing an error code. I keep searching the net for answers but have found nothing that satisfies. The Nintendo help section only addresses "the thinking" that the console is defective. But I have the same issue with this game on all four of my 3DS consoles. I think that simply verifies that it is a game issue.

The question that I have floating around in my mind is, "When games and their consoles enter the realm of "old hat," which are no longer supported, would this result in issues to play the game, or certain games?

I am not expecting any answers so don't feel pressured. I am just thinking out loud. Do updates that fix bugs in the firmware of a console effect the gameplay, or booting, of games creating the situation for the need of the game update? When going back to something like the SNES it is a closed system, never needing an update, neither the games. But then again is it the internet and security that instigates the need for an update?
None of my DS consoles can connect to the internet anymore. Not sure why. The original DS and the DS lite never connected to the internet, so no updates were ever needed. I don't remember of any games for the DS ever having an update either. I have been reading and watching YouTube addressing the problem of some 3DS games deteriorating and becoming unplayable.

I have been playing this game that motivated this post. If I get to a save point before the game crashes, I can restart the game and continue at that point. It is some what frustrating, but the game is fun to play. Puzzles & Dragons Mario edition, I hesitate to invest any money trying to purchase another one, even a brand new one. Now I am somewhat cautious about the 3DS format and its games. I do have another one that has quit working.
Any thoughts?
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[BLUEVOODU]

@retro junkie  - I have a few thoughts.  How are the contacts on the system?  Could it be a corrosion issue or something else with the physical cart? Maybe it's a physical damage of some sort.

Outside that, I'm not sure it would be an update issue.  I guess it could be, but the only way to know is to try to update your 3DS and to see if it works.

What are you thinking of for 1st steps?  If it's a cheap game, you might be able to buy a 2nd one in and see if there is an issue with that one as well.  That would or should fail if it was an update scenario (though not 100% fallible).

BTW - My original DS did play online... I played Tetris online with it... and it was a lot of fun.

[retro junkie]

@retro junkie  -
BTW - My original DS did play online... I played Tetris online with it... and it was a lot of fun.

The "original DS" did not have any feature that would enable it to be connected to the internet. Neither did the DS Lite. The DSi was the first model that featured internet access. Now they did have the ability to connect with another DS in the same area for gameplay, or using the picochat.

I know for sure that it is not the console, per say, that is the problem. And that is because the same issue manifests itself on all four 3DS, one of them is a 2DS. And that is a big assumption on my part.

The pins on the game looks good, no corrosion. I have tried cleaning in case there is something that I cannot see. I do want to purchase another copy. I will try that route to see if I find the same issue. Knowing that some games as they are released can have fixes, like the first batch can have bugs, and the next batch would have a fix in the game. I have read that some 3DS games have an issue with some of the flash memory deteriorating which effects the game.

[CreepinDeth]

How long has it been since it's been played? Did the cart work for a while and now has stopped working while it's been in your possession?

Something that has been coming up lately on the internet is that there is now a "best practice" to boot all of your carts at least once every 5 years or so to keep them from corrupting. Just like computer SSDs, they need to be powered with electrical current in order to help prevent that. If they are not powered for years then they can corrupt.

Not sure if this might be your case, but the older the NAND that hasn't been played much, the more likely you would encounter this.

None of my DS consoles can connect to the internet anymore. Not sure why.

Could be that your router is just too modern. I remember my PSP wouldn't connect unless I downgraded the password security to one of the older, less secure types. My current router doesn't support this anymore.

[BLUEVOODU]

The "original DS" did not have any feature that would enable it to be connected to the internet. Neither did the DS Lite. The DSi was the first model that featured internet access. Now they did have the ability to connect with another DS in the same area for gameplay, or using the picochat.

Yes - to connect the internet.  HOWEVER, prepare to have your mind blown @retro junkie
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This is my original Nintendo DS    I used to play Tetris DS online!  You can see that I cannot connect right now... the servers are down.  I never took the time to set up the WiFi to my new Wifi because of this.

Mind Blown?!  Limitation... it was WEP Wifi.  Also, these settings are accessible IN THE GAME. I could not find these settings outside the game, however, they are system wide settings once set.

ould be that your router is just too modern. I remember my PSP wouldn't connect unless I downgraded the password security to one of the older, less secure types. My current router doesn't support this anymore.

@CreepinDeth  --> That generally was the older WEP that you needed.   What you can do... you can chain an older wep router to your more secure setup via LAN cable... and just feed your WEP devices that way.  I wouldn't keep it on if you're in a populated area.  However, that's how I used to do things.  I believe it's still achievable these days.

[retro junkie]

@BLUEVOODU I do not have that feature on my old original DS.    I find this interesting. Yours looks like a totally different firmware. Or is it modded? There is nothing in my menu that will enable me to set up for wifi.

(So you had to have a game that contained the software to connect to the net. Hardware was there but no way to access unless you had an "online play" game. That is why I never knew it had that capability. Not until they included the software in the DSi.)

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@CreepinDeth just purchased this game last week I do not know the history of the game.

[BLUEVOODU]

@retro junkie - it's not in the standard settings. Your settings look just like mine. Once you have a WiFi enabled game, you are able to access these settings. The settings are directly IN Tetris DS. But once set, it appears to be system wide. There are a few other WiFi enabled games as well.

[retro junkie]

@BLUEVOODU so those particular DS models never received any firmware updates.....

[BLUEVOODU]

@retro junkie - not that I'm aware of!  I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

[CreepinDeth]

@CreepinDeth  --> That generally was the older WEP that you needed.  What you can do... you can chain an older wep router to your more secure setup via LAN cable... and just feed your WEP devices that way.  I wouldn't keep it on if you're in a populated area.  However, that's how I used to do things.  I believe it's still achievable these days.

That's a cool workaround but I would need the older WEP router, which I no longer have. It's okay though, no reason to connect those devices online anymore.

@CreepinDeth just purchased this game last week I do not know the history of the game.

It's possible the game sat around not being played by the original owner and then probably sat around some more until you bought it. Not sure if you can fix it. I would recommend returning it if the return policy is still in effect.

[BLUEVOODU]

It's possible the game sat around not being played by the original owner and then probably sat around some more until you bought it. Not sure if you can fix it. I would recommend returning it if the return policy is still in effect.

^ That's a good idea just in case!  Might as well... and try it again with another cart.  If there is something wrong, you can at least get your money back.

[retro junkie]

I returned the game for a refund. Hesitant but considering purchasing it again. Might look for the game new, not used.

The WEP issue is probably the reason my DS consoles will not make the connection. I have fiber optic internet with my service provider supplying the router. Modern tech.

[BLUEVOODU]

lol @retro junkie --> In this case, you won't want WEP.  It's been hackie hacked.

As far as the refund... good idea!  However, I'd say... don't be afraid to try again. Just ensure you get it from somewhere that will refund in case there is an issue.

[retro junkie]

@BLUEVOODU I am going to pull out all my 3DS games and start going through them just to see if I have any that exhibits any of the characteristics of the failing flash memory. I have two, maybe three, games that are still sealed, several years old. 

[BLUEVOODU]

@BLUEVOODU I am going to pull out all my 3DS games and start going through them just to see if I have any that exhibits any of the characteristics of the failing flash memory. I have two, maybe three, games that are still sealed, several years old. 

@retro junkie soo.... update... did you find any more? lol 

Also - did you check to see if any of your games were online capable?  Not a ton were online capable... and I believe most, if not all, the servers are toast now.

[retro junkie]

@BLUEVOODU

@retro junkie soo.... update... did you find any more? lol 

Also - did you check to see if any of your games were online capable?  Not a ton were online capable... and I believe most, if not all, the servers are toast now.

Out of the DS games that had the feature of online play, surprisingly I have about 27 games that are capable of going online. You have to keep in mind that I did not even pursue any desire to go online to play with someone else. It was just not in my mind to do so. I missed that feature, it just went under my radar.

My going through my 3DS collection, it is rather slow going, I am getting hung up playing the game.    I have more 3DS games than I thought. From what I understand there are a high number of the game Puzzles & Dragons Mario edition that are failing. So I will not be looking for another one unless I can walk into the store and try it before I buy. It is said that a third of those games are failing.

[retro junkie]

@BLUEVOODU just found my first one. Monster Hunter Generations will not boot. The game is recognized but it will not boot up. I never got into that game anyway. So I am not that upset. I favor Monster Hunter story.

[BLUEVOODU]

@BLUEVOODU just found my first one. Monster Hunter Generations will not boot. The game is recognized but it will not boot up. I never got into that game anyway. So I am not that upset. I favor Monster Hunter story.

@retro junkie  --> That's a bummer it won't boot. That game was pretty decent!

Did you find any others? lol 

[retro junkie]

@BLUEVOODU I found only two out of my 3DS games, Monster Hunter Generations and Persona Q.
I am glad that my Batman Black Gate worked because I have seen it turning bad too.

[BLUEVOODU]

@BLUEVOODU I found only two out of my 3DS games, Monster Hunter Generations and Persona Q.
I am glad that my Batman Black Gate worked because I have seen it turning bad too.

@retro junkie -- were you able to see the settings screen for WiFi with Persona Q?  Just to at least see the settings and see what I was showing?

[retro junkie]

@BLUEVOODU personal Q would not boot up. Totally dead just like the other game.
It makes me sort-of hesitant about purchasing any more 3DS games.

[BLUEVOODU]

@retro junkie - man... thankfully I've not experienced this. I need to test out my games again. 

So far all are working ...

[CreepinDeth]

So this fairly big youtube channel, JRPG Life, might have discovered the problem with Puzzle & Dragons Mario Edition.

They purchased a few loose copies. Some of them apparently ended up downloading an update. Once that happened, their original copy worked.

Sounds like there might be a patch that's required but not all copies initiate the download? That is pretty weird as well but seems like that's what's happening.

It's a good video. The link below should start at the point where they start loading up P&D. The video is a decent watch as well.

Timestamp is 12:50 if the link doesn't work.

[retro junkie]

@CreepinDeth evidently there was something different in the game's manufacturing that changed. Probably later copies included something in the game that initiated the update? Maybe earlier copies had a broken place in the code? My copy never tried to initiate an update. Batman: Black gate has the same issue. Persona Q is also known to have this issue. Some games have it worse than others.

[BLUEVOODU]

@CreepinDeth Great find and the clip worked great at the timestamp.  Dangit... I need to check all my games now.  That is weird... so the guy had to find a copy of the game that updated and then his old version worked as well.  What in the world.

Maybe I missed it. 
1.) I think it's assumed he had his system updated already.  @retro junkie - Did you 100% update your system?
2.) He said the update didn't immediately pop up, and I know the eshop upgrades will no longer work through the eshop method (since Nov 2023) to manually kick off the update.  I don't think there is a way to manually download any updates at this time:


No sir... I don't like it

[CreepinDeth]

@CreepinDeth evidently there was something different in the game's manufacturing that changed. Probably later copies included something in the game that initiated the update? Maybe earlier copies had a broken place in the code?

The way I could see that happening is if the wrong product code was used. However, not sure how that could happen with Nintendo checking and approving the games. Also, I don't think the patch would work on the broken copy if that were the case. If it did, then the broken copy would have no problem initiating the download of the patch.

Another reason why digital backups are necessary. Servers that provide patches are not going to be around forever and in these cases leaving games completely unplayable.

[retro junkie]

The thing is, these games shouldn't need an update, should it? It has been a few years but I do remember playing Monster Hunter Generations, and I was playing it on my 3DS consoles.

On the New 3DS consoles it hangs right here with the red pulsating animation. On the regular 3DS there is nothing but a blank screen and it hangs. By hang, I mean you can push the Home button and it will not return Home. I have to hold down the power button until the console completely shuts down. Pins are clean and shiny.

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[CreepinDeth]

The thing is, these games shouldn't need an update, should it?

Well, that's up to the developer. Even if a game seems perfectly fine, there still could be an update the developers want you to have. Sometimes the updates don't specifically alter gameplay. Could be any number of reasons why the update was created and pushed out. That's not specific to Nintendo platforms either. We're going to start seeing more of this now that the XBox 360, PS3 and Wii are entering "Retro" status.

[retro junkie]

This is the sort-of thing that pushed me into retro gaming. My Genesis, NES, SNES, TurboGrafx 16, GB, GBC, N64, or the GBA never needed an update, ever.

[CreepinDeth]

Well, those games were not entirely bullet-proof either. Yes, the amount of games that required an update was very small but the process for that was to no longer produce the original ROM once they ran out and then start selling the version that has the fix in it. If you had a game with a blocker that prevented you from continuing the game, you had to call customer service in order to send your cart for the one with a fix. Silent revisions were a thing and some people scour for certain carts because of that.

There's also the fact that the older the hardware, the less likely it works. Capacitors explode, pins corrode or have difficulty making contact, ports die due to wear & tear, internal batteries leak.

I don't mean to be a doomer, but nothing lasts forever and I hope we're able to preserve all of this art in some way.